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	<title>Comments on: Musicians, drunks, and Oliver Cromwell</title>
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	<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/</link>
	<description>The blog of John D. Cook</description>
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		<title>By: Bad logic, but good statistics &#8212; The Endeavour</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-117947</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad logic, but good statistics &#8212; The Endeavour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-117947</guid>
		<description>[...] Related post: Musicians, drunks, and Oliver Cromwell  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Related post: Musicians, drunks, and Oliver Cromwell  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joni</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-75526</link>
		<dc:creator>Joni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-75526</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, if an event has probability 0 it doesn&#039;t mean that it&#039;s impossible. Consider the event of picking a random number between 0 and 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, if an event has probability 0 it doesn&#8217;t mean that it&#8217;s impossible. Consider the event of picking a random number between 0 and 1.</p>
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		<title>By: Vishal</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-44157</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-44157</guid>
		<description>Interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-33911</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-33911</guid>
		<description>The point is that it is possible for someone to use trickery or a non-fair coin to predict 100 coin flips in a row.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is that it is possible for someone to use trickery or a non-fair coin to predict 100 coin flips in a row.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-33839</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-33839</guid>
		<description>Chris, if you &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; your probability is in the interval [0, epsilon], you&#039;re violating Cromwell&#039;s rule. You&#039;re assigning zero probability to all values larger than epsilon and no amount of data can change your mind.

To be fair, in practice data could eventually change your mind. If you saw enough successes you&#039;d conclude that the initial restriction was not appropriate. But the Bayesian formalism could accommodate unexpected data without having to change the model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, if you <em>know</em> your probability is in the interval [0, epsilon], you&#8217;re violating Cromwell&#8217;s rule. You&#8217;re assigning zero probability to all values larger than epsilon and no amount of data can change your mind.</p>
<p>To be fair, in practice data could eventually change your mind. If you saw enough successes you&#8217;d conclude that the initial restriction was not appropriate. But the Bayesian formalism could accommodate unexpected data without having to change the model.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-25963</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-25963</guid>
		<description>Sorry John. You and Jim are dead wrong. Frequentists would NOT treat the two cases identically if there was prior information. If you have prior information that the probability is in the itnerval [0,epsilon] then the maximum likelihood estimate from 10 successes out of 10 is epsilon.

That seems more honest to me. Much more honest than the Bayesian fuge of saying p is uniform which leads to adding one success and one failure i.e. the estimate 11/12.

And frequentisits do NOT assert that probabilities are 0. They sometimes POINT estimate a probability to be zero, but always aim to accompany this with a confidence interval. Again, 10/10 successes does not lead to an assertion that p=1, it leads to a 95% interval (0.741,1).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry John. You and Jim are dead wrong. Frequentists would NOT treat the two cases identically if there was prior information. If you have prior information that the probability is in the itnerval [0,epsilon] then the maximum likelihood estimate from 10 successes out of 10 is epsilon.</p>
<p>That seems more honest to me. Much more honest than the Bayesian fuge of saying p is uniform which leads to adding one success and one failure i.e. the estimate 11/12.</p>
<p>And frequentisits do NOT assert that probabilities are 0. They sometimes POINT estimate a probability to be zero, but always aim to accompany this with a confidence interval. Again, 10/10 successes does not lead to an assertion that p=1, it leads to a 95% interval (0.741,1).</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-13592</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-13592</guid>
		<description>yeah, thanks.  50% ** 10!  not 50% * 1/10

I figured that out in the wee hours of the morning after I realized that what I wrote wasn&#039;t even what I originally meant, which I&#039;d for some reason calculated as 2% in my mind.   

I&#039;d thought at first that it must be &quot;around 1:1000&quot; but then decided there must be  a trick to it.  In the clarity of the night I thought &quot; if I flip the coin two times, what are the possibilities of it coming up heads twice in a row -- four combinations, 1/4, or 1/2 * 1/2.&quot;  It wasn&#039;t hard to extropolate that out, since counting by exponents is a great way to waste time in school.  And besides, anyone who doesn&#039;t know 2^10 shouldn&#039;t be using a computer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, thanks.  50% ** 10!  not 50% * 1/10</p>
<p>I figured that out in the wee hours of the morning after I realized that what I wrote wasn&#8217;t even what I originally meant, which I&#8217;d for some reason calculated as 2% in my mind.   </p>
<p>I&#8217;d thought at first that it must be &#8220;around 1:1000&#8243; but then decided there must be  a trick to it.  In the clarity of the night I thought &#8221; if I flip the coin two times, what are the possibilities of it coming up heads twice in a row &#8212; four combinations, 1/4, or 1/2 * 1/2.&#8221;  It wasn&#8217;t hard to extropolate that out, since counting by exponents is a great way to waste time in school.  And besides, anyone who doesn&#8217;t know 2^10 shouldn&#8217;t be using a computer.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-13563</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-13563</guid>
		<description>Aaron: the probability of guessing each of ten coin tosses for a fair coin is 1/2^10 = 1/1024 or about 0.001.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron: the probability of guessing each of ten coin tosses for a fair coin is 1/2^10 = 1/1024 or about 0.001.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/comment-page-1/#comment-13562</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/01/12/musicians-drunks-and-oliver-cromwell/#comment-13562</guid>
		<description>Did Haydn produce a lot more music than Mozart?  So that taking a random sample from the combined complete works of both would give a definite bias to Haydn.  

What exactly are the odds of guessing the right coin-toss 10 times in a row.  My non-statistical mind would guess 50% * 10 = 5%.  That&#039;s assuming the drunk didn&#039;t by chance have a weighted coin, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Haydn produce a lot more music than Mozart?  So that taking a random sample from the combined complete works of both would give a definite bias to Haydn.  </p>
<p>What exactly are the odds of guessing the right coin-toss 10 times in a row.  My non-statistical mind would guess 50% * 10 = 5%.  That&#8217;s assuming the drunk didn&#8217;t by chance have a weighted coin, too.</p>
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