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	<title>Comments on: Evaluate people at their best or their worst?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/</link>
	<description>The blog of John D. Cook</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:10:06 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-134969</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-134969</guid>
		<description>Some places (a college I used to work in) evaluate according to their actions in recent months. If you are lucky, you had been at your best in those recent months; some places don&#039;t have long term memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some places (a college I used to work in) evaluate according to their actions in recent months. If you are lucky, you had been at your best in those recent months; some places don&#8217;t have long term memory.</p>
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		<title>By: Hobo Kore Dojo &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cook&#8217;s Theory of Performance Evaluation</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-129557</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobo Kore Dojo &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cook&#8217;s Theory of Performance Evaluation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-129557</guid>
		<description>[...] ideas presented here evolved from a post titled &#8220;Evaluate people at their best or their worst?&#8221; on John Cook&#8217;s blog. In order to make this post a little tighter, I&#8217;ll refer to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ideas presented here evolved from a post titled &#8220;Evaluate people at their best or their worst?&#8221; on John Cook&#8217;s blog. In order to make this post a little tighter, I&#8217;ll refer to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How to know it all &#8212; The Endeavour</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-123398</link>
		<dc:creator>How to know it all &#8212; The Endeavour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-123398</guid>
		<description>[...] Evaluate people at their best or at their worst? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evaluate people at their best or at their worst? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Slide rules &#8212; The Endeavour</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-75743</link>
		<dc:creator>Slide rules &#8212; The Endeavour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-75743</guid>
		<description>[...] Evaluate people at their best or at their worst? Fairy dust on the diploma    ? X [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evaluate people at their best or at their worst? Fairy dust on the diploma    ? X [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What Schools Teach : Circe Institute</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-45649</link>
		<dc:creator>What Schools Teach : Circe Institute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 18:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-45649</guid>
		<description>[...] goes on to argue that schools reward us for our worst performances instead of for our best. Thought-provoking and worth reading if you can act on it. In any case, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] goes on to argue that schools reward us for our worst performances instead of for our best. Thought-provoking and worth reading if you can act on it. In any case, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gong_tiger</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-39373</link>
		<dc:creator>gong_tiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 09:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-39373</guid>
		<description>Does school education really handicap a person from being successful?
I don&#039;t quite agree,Mr.Shakespear is good at creative writing ,but he is more likely than not to be good at physics as well.A person&#039;s talent is usually not confined to one field,but pervasive to all fields that he or she is willing to be engaged in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does school education really handicap a person from being successful?<br />
I don&#8217;t quite agree,Mr.Shakespear is good at creative writing ,but he is more likely than not to be good at physics as well.A person&#8217;s talent is usually not confined to one field,but pervasive to all fields that he or she is willing to be engaged in.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Thomson</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-39356</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 03:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-39356</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;People arent interested in education. They are interested in buying, purchasing a degree from a for-profit institution selling them. Degrees are bought with tuition money, time-spent, and going through the bureaucratic motions stipulated by the school.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s because that&#039;s what corporations are interested in and people respond to incentives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>People arent interested in education. They are interested in buying, purchasing a degree from a for-profit institution selling them. Degrees are bought with tuition money, time-spent, and going through the bureaucratic motions stipulated by the school.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s because that&#8217;s what corporations are interested in and people respond to incentives.</p>
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		<title>By: CogitoErgoCogitoSum</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-36465</link>
		<dc:creator>CogitoErgoCogitoSum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-36465</guid>
		<description>One of the problems with academia is that they grade on a curve most of the time. Minimums are adjusted, passing is adjusted, so that a C grade becomes the average grade by definition.

Another failing of academia is that in order to move on to a higher level course, you need only pass the prerequisite.  I am of the mindset that you should need far more than merely a passing grade.

A third failing of academia is that the first week of every course is wasted reviewing the same material that was supposedly learned in the quarter/semester that just ended a week prior.

I believe that if your transcript says you have taken and passed a class, then there is no reason to review it in &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; course.  If you dont know the material already then you shouldnt have passed the previous class.

And if its because you took that class long ago, that isnt an excuse.  Its just as much the schools responsibility to assess your readiness to move forward as it is the students.  Arrogance is what gets a lot of students to push forward further and faster than they can handle.  If the student doesnt perceive themselves as genuinely prepared, then why not take a refresher course?

I dont believe degrees should be given to those who pass their classes. But rather to those who have actually learned the subject material.  Its too easy to get a degree these days... and too many get one to save face and look good for employment, having learned nothing.  But thats not the image they give.  And its all about superficial image.

Back in the day, any high school drop out could succeed.  A GED was better and a diploma was better yet.  People were highly successful and innovative.  Nowadays degrees are so prevalent and the standards so low that you cant even get anywhere with an Associates, but need at least a Bachelors.  Its hurting the economy and the job market, I think.

People arent interested in education. They are interested in buying, purchasing a degree from a for-profit institution selling them.  Degrees are bought with tuition money, time-spent, and going through the bureaucratic motions stipulated by the school.

I get so annoyed at my fellow classmates for holding up the classroom, for holding up lecture.  They ask the teacher ridiculous questions about subject matter they should already know... because their transcripts say they should.  I was enrolled in Multi-variate calculus and one day a student asked how to distribute a constant through a polynomial. No joke.  &quot;How the hell did you get into this class?&quot;... I wanted to scrutinize and belittle so badly.  This held the classroom up for at least ten minutes.  Ten minutes of my tuition money, enrolled in an advanced calculus course, spent teaching trivial algebra.  These are the standards of academia to date.

I am actually personally offended at the fact that my school would assess my skills and place me into the same course as these &quot;people&quot;, &quot;students&quot;.  I dont believe for a minute that &lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt; should be any further ahead than I am... that would be arrogant on my part.  I am placed into multivariate calculus because that is what I am ready to learn.  Rather I think that 99% of my classmates shouldnt be where &lt;b&gt;they&lt;/b&gt; are. The fact that they met the prerequisites of the course suggests to me nothing short than they managed to rote memorize, but still fail to comprehend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the problems with academia is that they grade on a curve most of the time. Minimums are adjusted, passing is adjusted, so that a C grade becomes the average grade by definition.</p>
<p>Another failing of academia is that in order to move on to a higher level course, you need only pass the prerequisite.  I am of the mindset that you should need far more than merely a passing grade.</p>
<p>A third failing of academia is that the first week of every course is wasted reviewing the same material that was supposedly learned in the quarter/semester that just ended a week prior.</p>
<p>I believe that if your transcript says you have taken and passed a class, then there is no reason to review it in <i>this</i> course.  If you dont know the material already then you shouldnt have passed the previous class.</p>
<p>And if its because you took that class long ago, that isnt an excuse.  Its just as much the schools responsibility to assess your readiness to move forward as it is the students.  Arrogance is what gets a lot of students to push forward further and faster than they can handle.  If the student doesnt perceive themselves as genuinely prepared, then why not take a refresher course?</p>
<p>I dont believe degrees should be given to those who pass their classes. But rather to those who have actually learned the subject material.  Its too easy to get a degree these days&#8230; and too many get one to save face and look good for employment, having learned nothing.  But thats not the image they give.  And its all about superficial image.</p>
<p>Back in the day, any high school drop out could succeed.  A GED was better and a diploma was better yet.  People were highly successful and innovative.  Nowadays degrees are so prevalent and the standards so low that you cant even get anywhere with an Associates, but need at least a Bachelors.  Its hurting the economy and the job market, I think.</p>
<p>People arent interested in education. They are interested in buying, purchasing a degree from a for-profit institution selling them.  Degrees are bought with tuition money, time-spent, and going through the bureaucratic motions stipulated by the school.</p>
<p>I get so annoyed at my fellow classmates for holding up the classroom, for holding up lecture.  They ask the teacher ridiculous questions about subject matter they should already know&#8230; because their transcripts say they should.  I was enrolled in Multi-variate calculus and one day a student asked how to distribute a constant through a polynomial. No joke.  &#8220;How the hell did you get into this class?&#8221;&#8230; I wanted to scrutinize and belittle so badly.  This held the classroom up for at least ten minutes.  Ten minutes of my tuition money, enrolled in an advanced calculus course, spent teaching trivial algebra.  These are the standards of academia to date.</p>
<p>I am actually personally offended at the fact that my school would assess my skills and place me into the same course as these &#8220;people&#8221;, &#8220;students&#8221;.  I dont believe for a minute that <b>I</b> should be any further ahead than I am&#8230; that would be arrogant on my part.  I am placed into multivariate calculus because that is what I am ready to learn.  Rather I think that 99% of my classmates shouldnt be where <b>they</b> are. The fact that they met the prerequisites of the course suggests to me nothing short than they managed to rote memorize, but still fail to comprehend.</p>
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		<title>By: Nir</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-33258</link>
		<dc:creator>Nir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-33258</guid>
		<description>being constantly average or &#039;good enough&#039; seems to be the criteria to survive on markets in the long term for the /vast majority/ of people. &#039;the best&#039; isn&#039;t required or not affordable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>being constantly average or &#8216;good enough&#8217; seems to be the criteria to survive on markets in the long term for the /vast majority/ of people. &#8216;the best&#8217; isn&#8217;t required or not affordable.</p>
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		<title>By: Avaliar pessoas: no seu melhor ou pior &#171; Blog Pra falar de coisas</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-17721</link>
		<dc:creator>Avaliar pessoas: no seu melhor ou pior &#171; Blog Pra falar de coisas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 01:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-17721</guid>
		<description>[...] under Arte e Cultura &#124; Tags: avaliação, média, qualidade &#124; No Comments&#160;  Esse foi um post do The Endeavour que gostei: Qual a melhor forma de avaliar pessoas? pelo seu melhor ou pelo seu pior? Escolheremos [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] under Arte e Cultura | Tags: avaliação, média, qualidade | No Comments&nbsp;  Esse foi um post do The Endeavour que gostei: Qual a melhor forma de avaliar pessoas? pelo seu melhor ou pelo seu pior? Escolheremos [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Gelman</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-14289</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Gelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 01:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-14289</guid>
		<description>Outside of MIT and Caltech, are there any colleges that &quot;cannot let you graduate until you pass physics&quot;??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outside of MIT and Caltech, are there any colleges that &#8220;cannot let you graduate until you pass physics&#8221;??</p>
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		<title>By: What Schools Teach &#171; Quiddity</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-14097</link>
		<dc:creator>What Schools Teach &#171; Quiddity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-14097</guid>
		<description>[...] goes on to argue that schools reward us for our worst performances instead of for our best. Thought-provoking and worth reading if you can act on it. In any case, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] goes on to argue that schools reward us for our worst performances instead of for our best. Thought-provoking and worth reading if you can act on it. In any case, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-14058</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-14058</guid>
		<description>I agree that you&#039;re not evaluated at your best until grad school. And the odd thing is that you&#039;re admitted to grad school by doing well by very different criteria than what it takes to succeed once you&#039;re in. 

Instead of saying &quot;grad school&quot; I probably should say &quot;a PhD program.&quot; Masters programs have essentially the same evaluation criteria as undergraduate programs: required classes, exams, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that you&#8217;re not evaluated at your best until grad school. And the odd thing is that you&#8217;re admitted to grad school by doing well by very different criteria than what it takes to succeed once you&#8217;re in. </p>
<p>Instead of saying &#8220;grad school&#8221; I probably should say &#8220;a PhD program.&#8221; Masters programs have essentially the same evaluation criteria as undergraduate programs: required classes, exams, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill the Lizard</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/03/03/evaluate-people-at-their-best/comment-page-1/#comment-14056</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill the Lizard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=1576#comment-14056</guid>
		<description>Hmm...maybe if our schools truly wish to produce more innovators, they&#039;ll start concentrating on more rewards for outstanding &lt;strong&gt;best&lt;/strong&gt; performance.  It seems like it isn&#039;t until graduate school at the earliest that students get the kind of encouragement needed to be successful.  I&#039;m not saying that we should completely revolutionize our education system (I&#039;m not &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; saying that either), but maybe we could &lt;em&gt;add&lt;/em&gt; incentives for outstanding best performances.  I&#039;d love to see more essay contests, math tournaments, and science fairs at my child&#039;s school.  These are the sorts of things that get kids excited about learning because everyone has the same opportunity to win.  You don&#039;t have to be a straight-A student to excel in one area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230;maybe if our schools truly wish to produce more innovators, they&#8217;ll start concentrating on more rewards for outstanding <strong>best</strong> performance.  It seems like it isn&#8217;t until graduate school at the earliest that students get the kind of encouragement needed to be successful.  I&#8217;m not saying that we should completely revolutionize our education system (I&#8217;m not <em>not</em> saying that either), but maybe we could <em>add</em> incentives for outstanding best performances.  I&#8217;d love to see more essay contests, math tournaments, and science fairs at my child&#8217;s school.  These are the sorts of things that get kids excited about learning because everyone has the same opportunity to win.  You don&#8217;t have to be a straight-A student to excel in one area.</p>
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