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	<title>Comments on: Three algorithms for converting color to grayscale</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/</link>
	<description>The blog of John D. Cook</description>
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		<title>By: Paweł Głowacki : Converting to grayscale with TBitmap.ScanLine property</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-36413</link>
		<dc:creator>Paweł Głowacki : Converting to grayscale with TBitmap.ScanLine property</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-36413</guid>
		<description>[...] I have described an algorithm for converting arbitrary TBitmap instances to gray using a selected formula. The problem is with the performance of the code that actually changes the color of each pixel. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have described an algorithm for converting arbitrary TBitmap instances to gray using a selected formula. The problem is with the performance of the code that actually changes the color of each pixel. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paweł Głowacki : Boian&#8217;s TBitmap Visualizer and converting to grayscale</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-35526</link>
		<dc:creator>Paweł Głowacki : Boian&#8217;s TBitmap Visualizer and converting to grayscale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-35526</guid>
		<description>[...] clicks away I have found the description of three algorithms to convert to grayscale as implemented by GIMP: lightness, average and luminosity. All these formulas take R, G and B [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] clicks away I have found the description of three algorithms to convert to grayscale as implemented by GIMP: lightness, average and luminosity. All these formulas take R, G and B [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ant.simianzombie.com &#187; Scrollbars and Greyscale Algorithms</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-27767</link>
		<dc:creator>ant.simianzombie.com &#187; Scrollbars and Greyscale Algorithms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-27767</guid>
		<description>[...] the properties of the human eye. Other algorithms for this are listed on John D Cook&#8217;s blog.    Categories: Woopsi Tags: Algorithms, bugfixes, greyscale, scrollbars, Woopsi        Comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the properties of the human eye. Other algorithms for this are listed on John D Cook&#8217;s blog.    Categories: Woopsi Tags: Algorithms, bugfixes, greyscale, scrollbars, Woopsi        Comments [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: igorbrejc.net &#187; Fresh Catch For August 29th</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23650</link>
		<dc:creator>igorbrejc.net &#187; Fresh Catch For August 29th</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23650</guid>
		<description>[...] Three algorithms for converting color to grayscale &#8212; The Endeavour [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Three algorithms for converting color to grayscale &mdash; The Endeavour [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PossiblyKevin</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23466</link>
		<dc:creator>PossiblyKevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23466</guid>
		<description>the answer is none of the above methods are used for film. in film or any system sensitive to the electromagnetic spectrum, can be considered as a reduction of an infinite number of frequencies (well infinite depending on your quantum view of the world I guess), into a smaller number, in a similar manner to a weighted sum histogram.

In film or a digital sensor there is a spectral sensitivity function that determine which frequencies  of light get absorbed/sensitise the emulsion based upon the chemical structure. Through various means this gets converted to either silver halide crystals or in colour film different dye&#039;s are formed (eventually).

You then shine a light through the resultant film and bounce it off a screen, your eyes then view the result, In mathematical terms this is a highly non-linear transformation from scene-to-screen and is a function of many reductions from spectral to n-dimensional &#039;records&#039; all of whose intensity functions are non-linear.

In film the actual &#039;colours&#039; vary mostly due to the stocks used, but there are some effects that vary with intensity of exposure so the camera settings can effect the results though this is minor compared to the stock and development.

Re: the magic numbers, well they are based upon a mixing assumption. They are are saying what linear combination of R, G and B would you perceive as being without colour, i.e. neutral. Depending on the exact colours of R, G and B you will get different proportions. The mixing also assumes that the individual colour channels are linear, else your not really that close to how our eyes behave. What you consider neutral is also heavily effected by the surroundings in which you view, your eyes are able to adjust their own gain functions to compensate for a certain amount of change, thus a piece of paper can look white to you even if the colour of the light  shining on it is changed, although with highly coloured light you will still see it as being coloured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the answer is none of the above methods are used for film. in film or any system sensitive to the electromagnetic spectrum, can be considered as a reduction of an infinite number of frequencies (well infinite depending on your quantum view of the world I guess), into a smaller number, in a similar manner to a weighted sum histogram.</p>
<p>In film or a digital sensor there is a spectral sensitivity function that determine which frequencies  of light get absorbed/sensitise the emulsion based upon the chemical structure. Through various means this gets converted to either silver halide crystals or in colour film different dye&#8217;s are formed (eventually).</p>
<p>You then shine a light through the resultant film and bounce it off a screen, your eyes then view the result, In mathematical terms this is a highly non-linear transformation from scene-to-screen and is a function of many reductions from spectral to n-dimensional &#8216;records&#8217; all of whose intensity functions are non-linear.</p>
<p>In film the actual &#8216;colours&#8217; vary mostly due to the stocks used, but there are some effects that vary with intensity of exposure so the camera settings can effect the results though this is minor compared to the stock and development.</p>
<p>Re: the magic numbers, well they are based upon a mixing assumption. They are are saying what linear combination of R, G and B would you perceive as being without colour, i.e. neutral. Depending on the exact colours of R, G and B you will get different proportions. The mixing also assumes that the individual colour channels are linear, else your not really that close to how our eyes behave. What you consider neutral is also heavily effected by the surroundings in which you view, your eyes are able to adjust their own gain functions to compensate for a certain amount of change, thus a piece of paper can look white to you even if the colour of the light  shining on it is changed, although with highly coloured light you will still see it as being coloured.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23457</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23457</guid>
		<description>@Keith: That&#039;s a good question. I&#039;d like to know the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Keith: That&#8217;s a good question. I&#8217;d like to know the answer.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23456</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23456</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this is obvious to others, but what algorithm does actual film &quot;use&quot; to convert colors? An old-school analog (i.e. not digital) camera changes real world colors into b&amp;w photographs, but using which of these methods, if any? I&#039;m guessing it may vary with camera and film settings, and likely has changed over time, but is there one method it tends to favor over the others?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this is obvious to others, but what algorithm does actual film &#8220;use&#8221; to convert colors? An old-school analog (i.e. not digital) camera changes real world colors into b&amp;w photographs, but using which of these methods, if any? I&#8217;m guessing it may vary with camera and film settings, and likely has changed over time, but is there one method it tends to favor over the others?</p>
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		<title>By: AdamJTP</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23431</link>
		<dc:creator>AdamJTP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23431</guid>
		<description>And if (0.21 R + 0.71 G + 0.07 B) seem like magic numbers then here are some more magic numbers: 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://jscience.org/experimental/javadoc/org/jscience/computing/ai/vision/GreyscaleFilter.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://jscience.org/experimental/javadoc/org/jscience/computing/ai/vision/GreyscaleFilter.html&lt;/a&gt;

I&#039;ve heard that some portrait photographers use orange filters with black and white film (to remove freckles and spots).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if (0.21 R + 0.71 G + 0.07 B) seem like magic numbers then here are some more magic numbers:<br />
<a href="http://jscience.org/experimental/javadoc/org/jscience/computing/ai/vision/GreyscaleFilter.html" rel="nofollow">http://jscience.org/experimental/javadoc/org/jscience/computing/ai/vision/GreyscaleFilter.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard that some portrait photographers use orange filters with black and white film (to remove freckles and spots).</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Howe</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/08/24/algorithms-convert-color-grayscale/comment-page-1/#comment-23430</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Howe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=2916#comment-23430</guid>
		<description>Always worth just seeing if each channel on it&#039;s own produces good results too! Can also get some really interesting shots when just looking at one channel :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always worth just seeing if each channel on it&#8217;s own produces good results too! Can also get some really interesting shots when just looking at one channel <img src='http://www.johndcook.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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