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	<title>Comments on: Self-sufficiency is the road to poverty</title>
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	<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/</link>
	<description>The blog of John D. Cook</description>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-101535</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-101535</guid>
		<description>COMMUNITY. INTERDEPENDENCE  &#039;feeds the soul&#039; in a market and economy; as it acknowledges the person&#039;s talents , skill, value of labor and importance.... whereas MONEY, SELF SUFFICIENCY, &amp; INDEPENDENCE-  leads to securing the flesh.It bears  no effect to feed the soul but to avoid despair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>COMMUNITY. INTERDEPENDENCE  &#8216;feeds the soul&#8217; in a market and economy; as it acknowledges the person&#8217;s talents , skill, value of labor and importance&#8230;. whereas MONEY, SELF SUFFICIENCY, &amp; INDEPENDENCE-  leads to securing the flesh.It bears  no effect to feed the soul but to avoid despair.</p>
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		<title>By: Archibald</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-77213</link>
		<dc:creator>Archibald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 20:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-77213</guid>
		<description>Funnily enough, most of todays rich countries selectively used protectionist measures to become better specialized.  

Just goes to show that the the free trade/protectionism is a false dichotomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funnily enough, most of todays rich countries selectively used protectionist measures to become better specialized.  </p>
<p>Just goes to show that the the free trade/protectionism is a false dichotomy.</p>
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		<title>By: The beauty of letterpress and craft and old arts faithfully renewed &#124; cemerick</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-44139</link>
		<dc:creator>The beauty of letterpress and craft and old arts faithfully renewed &#124; cemerick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-44139</guid>
		<description>[...] The artfulness, the care, and the precision of the work exhibited there is remarkable. Seeing it makes me want to retire and build a letterpress from scratch, and start pumping out lovingly-crafted stationary and such (although remember, self-sufficiency is the road to poverty). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The artfulness, the care, and the precision of the work exhibited there is remarkable. Seeing it makes me want to retire and build a letterpress from scratch, and start pumping out lovingly-crafted stationary and such (although remember, self-sufficiency is the road to poverty). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Tate</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-36923</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Tate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-36923</guid>
		<description>&quot;Because the mature state of self-sufficiency is a prerequisite to genuine, sustainable and practical liberty, yet not without being continually subject to a conscience nurtured not by vain, humanistic and altruistic philosophies of the natural man&#039;s wisdom but by none other than the supernatural and paternal wisdom of the Holy Ghost.&quot; 
I&#039;d rather be free than rich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Because the mature state of self-sufficiency is a prerequisite to genuine, sustainable and practical liberty, yet not without being continually subject to a conscience nurtured not by vain, humanistic and altruistic philosophies of the natural man&#8217;s wisdom but by none other than the supernatural and paternal wisdom of the Holy Ghost.&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;d rather be free than rich.</p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t be bored &#171; Evidence of Intent</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33680</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t be bored &#171; Evidence of Intent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33680</guid>
		<description>[...] Self-sufficiency is the road to poverty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Self-sufficiency is the road to poverty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33464</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33464</guid>
		<description>Great post a lot to think about. I guess it means different things to different people. I made the choice years ago. I guess I&#039;m the one with the pioneer spirit. Here at back to basics homestead, we are self sufficient, we are not  caught up with all the crap they use in foods and soaps, or our meat is not soaked in preservatives. No we are not Daniel Boones, but we do have the resources for anyone to do the same. Your post was great thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post a lot to think about. I guess it means different things to different people. I made the choice years ago. I guess I&#8217;m the one with the pioneer spirit. Here at back to basics homestead, we are self sufficient, we are not  caught up with all the crap they use in foods and soaps, or our meat is not soaked in preservatives. No we are not Daniel Boones, but we do have the resources for anyone to do the same. Your post was great thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Braam</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33203</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Braam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33203</guid>
		<description>This is a refreshing thread to come across in todays ever increasgin pressure environment that drives us to inter-dependence. I value self sufficiency in only some areas of my life, ones that I choose. I do however believe that economic self-sufficiency is far too often &#039;stolen&#039; from &#039;poor&#039; peoples simply because they are being controlled by artificial borders maintained by stakeholders in the economy. Everyone with access to a &quot;market&quot; does want money more than they desire to grow their own veg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a refreshing thread to come across in todays ever increasgin pressure environment that drives us to inter-dependence. I value self sufficiency in only some areas of my life, ones that I choose. I do however believe that economic self-sufficiency is far too often &#8217;stolen&#8217; from &#8216;poor&#8217; peoples simply because they are being controlled by artificial borders maintained by stakeholders in the economy. Everyone with access to a &#8220;market&#8221; does want money more than they desire to grow their own veg.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33187</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33187</guid>
		<description>Clyde: Very good point. 

It&#039;s important to have transferable skills. If you&#039;re a Volvo mechanic and the last Volvo dealership in your area closes, you&#039;ll need to move or work on other kinds of cars. But you don&#039;t have to become a farmer and live off the land. But even a category as broad as &quot;mechanic&quot; is very specialized compared to the Nepalese house servant Roberts talks about in his podcast. 

I&#039;m not an advocate of hyper-specialization. I&#039;ve always kept my options somewhat open. But I think Roberts is right that it&#039;s not a good strategy to be too much of a do-it-yourselfer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clyde: Very good point. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to have transferable skills. If you&#8217;re a Volvo mechanic and the last Volvo dealership in your area closes, you&#8217;ll need to move or work on other kinds of cars. But you don&#8217;t have to become a farmer and live off the land. But even a category as broad as &#8220;mechanic&#8221; is very specialized compared to the Nepalese house servant Roberts talks about in his podcast. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an advocate of hyper-specialization. I&#8217;ve always kept my options somewhat open. But I think Roberts is right that it&#8217;s not a good strategy to be too much of a do-it-yourselfer.</p>
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		<title>By: clyde</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33185</link>
		<dc:creator>clyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33185</guid>
		<description>I think specialization is great, but when the Man comes to you and says, &quot;I don&#039;t need your specialty anymore.&quot;, you need to be self sufficient enough to turn back to him and say, &quot; Thanks, Man, I don&#039;t need you either.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think specialization is great, but when the Man comes to you and says, &#8220;I don&#8217;t need your specialty anymore.&#8221;, you need to be self sufficient enough to turn back to him and say, &#8221; Thanks, Man, I don&#8217;t need you either.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33156</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33156</guid>
		<description>If we look at this dynamic in the real world, we will see that it is not like it appears to be. In theory, sounds beautiful. In practice, its ugly.

In the 1970&#039;s, 70% of the wealth was in the hands of 25% of the people. In the new millennium, more than 90% of the wealth is in hands of less than 1% of the population of the world.

Hm... We as a race, have been basing our economic system on these principles, surprises?

Peace for you all :¬)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we look at this dynamic in the real world, we will see that it is not like it appears to be. In theory, sounds beautiful. In practice, its ugly.</p>
<p>In the 1970&#8217;s, 70% of the wealth was in the hands of 25% of the people. In the new millennium, more than 90% of the wealth is in hands of less than 1% of the population of the world.</p>
<p>Hm&#8230; We as a race, have been basing our economic system on these principles, surprises?</p>
<p>Peace for you all :¬)</p>
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		<title>By: Amber Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33144</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33144</guid>
		<description>Or because self-sufficient people are &quot;happier&quot;?  It&#039;s just a hypothesis but one that I&#039;ve seen to be true plenty of times.  Perhaps not working with our hands leaves us unfullfilled.  

Self-sufficient people are certainly more &lt;i&gt;stable&lt;/i&gt; - see recent financial crisis as Exhibit A.  Highly specialized bankers and real estate agents were left empty-handed and scared whereas jack-of-all-trades just moved on, happy with what they had, and optimistic about new opportunities.  

Lastly, self-sufficient people define their own value of their work.  They plant the food and they eat it.  Instead, an orthodontists worth is held over his head and determined by the market and people&#039;s perception of value.  The orthodontist may be more prosperous, but some people would prefer the control.

As software developers and parents, my husband and I struggle with this.  We want our son to have a &quot;wholesome&quot; childhood with fresh, healthy, home-cooked food, and a clean home and lawn that we tend to ourselves.  

In reality we both work full time, plus have the opportunity to do high-paying side work, so it&#039;s not &quot;worth&quot; our time to do these things, and we have cleaners, lawn mowers, pool cleaners, and eat out more often than we eat in.  This is not just a high-level society question, but one that we face every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or because self-sufficient people are &#8220;happier&#8221;?  It&#8217;s just a hypothesis but one that I&#8217;ve seen to be true plenty of times.  Perhaps not working with our hands leaves us unfullfilled.  </p>
<p>Self-sufficient people are certainly more <i>stable</i> &#8211; see recent financial crisis as Exhibit A.  Highly specialized bankers and real estate agents were left empty-handed and scared whereas jack-of-all-trades just moved on, happy with what they had, and optimistic about new opportunities.  </p>
<p>Lastly, self-sufficient people define their own value of their work.  They plant the food and they eat it.  Instead, an orthodontists worth is held over his head and determined by the market and people&#8217;s perception of value.  The orthodontist may be more prosperous, but some people would prefer the control.</p>
<p>As software developers and parents, my husband and I struggle with this.  We want our son to have a &#8220;wholesome&#8221; childhood with fresh, healthy, home-cooked food, and a clean home and lawn that we tend to ourselves.  </p>
<p>In reality we both work full time, plus have the opportunity to do high-paying side work, so it&#8217;s not &#8220;worth&#8221; our time to do these things, and we have cleaners, lawn mowers, pool cleaners, and eat out more often than we eat in.  This is not just a high-level society question, but one that we face every day.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33140</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33140</guid>
		<description>I think the term &#039;self-sufficient&#039; changes connotation when referring to a nation or economy versus an individual person.  

Self-sufficiency, when used to describe a nation or economy tends to sound like isolationism (which is what I believe the intent is here). 

However, individuals that are not self-sufficient are not generally thought of as being more engaged with the economy, but rather the opposite - not sufficiently engaged enough to provide for their own needs. Their shortcomings must be made up for by someone else. Example:  a dependent teenager who has a job, but cannot yet fully support him/herself (i.e., not yet self-sufficient).  Surely Mr. Roberts does not mean to say that by becoming more competent at providing for his own needs, a teenager is on the road to poverty. 

So perhaps using different terms  for the two cases would clarify things a bit?  Maybe it would make them worse . . 


Perhaps there is a better or more specific set of terms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the term &#8217;self-sufficient&#8217; changes connotation when referring to a nation or economy versus an individual person.  </p>
<p>Self-sufficiency, when used to describe a nation or economy tends to sound like isolationism (which is what I believe the intent is here). </p>
<p>However, individuals that are not self-sufficient are not generally thought of as being more engaged with the economy, but rather the opposite &#8211; not sufficiently engaged enough to provide for their own needs. Their shortcomings must be made up for by someone else. Example:  a dependent teenager who has a job, but cannot yet fully support him/herself (i.e., not yet self-sufficient).  Surely Mr. Roberts does not mean to say that by becoming more competent at providing for his own needs, a teenager is on the road to poverty. </p>
<p>So perhaps using different terms  for the two cases would clarify things a bit?  Maybe it would make them worse . . </p>
<p>Perhaps there is a better or more specific set of terms</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33135</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33135</guid>
		<description>There is a clear segue to software development... What does this tell us about software productivity? Using somebody else&#039;s code or library that fits the task less-than-perfectly will sometimes be more productive than trying to write the perfect class module for yourself. Any insight on the boundary between &quot;acquire&quot; and &quot;make&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a clear segue to software development&#8230; What does this tell us about software productivity? Using somebody else&#8217;s code or library that fits the task less-than-perfectly will sometimes be more productive than trying to write the perfect class module for yourself. Any insight on the boundary between &#8220;acquire&#8221; and &#8220;make&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33131</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33131</guid>
		<description>John: I think what Russ Roberts is advocating is what Steven Covey calls &quot;interdependence.&quot; Maybe Roberts used the term &quot;self-sufficiency&quot; to be provocative. 

It gets back to the difference between relying on trade versus relying on benefactors. I buy my own groceries. I&#039;m self-sufficient in the sense that I do not depend on parents, government, etc. to pay for my food. But I&#039;m not self-sufficient in Robert&#039;s sense of the term. I&#039;m relying on grocers, truck drivers, farmers, ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: I think what Russ Roberts is advocating is what Steven Covey calls &#8220;interdependence.&#8221; Maybe Roberts used the term &#8220;self-sufficiency&#8221; to be provocative. </p>
<p>It gets back to the difference between relying on trade versus relying on benefactors. I buy my own groceries. I&#8217;m self-sufficient in the sense that I do not depend on parents, government, etc. to pay for my food. But I&#8217;m not self-sufficient in Robert&#8217;s sense of the term. I&#8217;m relying on grocers, truck drivers, farmers, &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John MacIntyre</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33130</link>
		<dc:creator>John MacIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33130</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ve ever read any Steven Covey stuff, but he suggests that Independence is a prerequisite to Interdependence.  So I think self-sufficiency is a core skill which you must possess, but should by pass when the opportunity presents itself ... for the sake of efficiency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever read any Steven Covey stuff, but he suggests that Independence is a prerequisite to Interdependence.  So I think self-sufficiency is a core skill which you must possess, but should by pass when the opportunity presents itself &#8230; for the sake of efficiency.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33129</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33129</guid>
		<description>clintp: There is a legitimate concern about being too dependent on others. But being dependent on trade isn&#039;t the same as being dependent on charity. You have recourse with trading partners but not with benefactors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>clintp: There is a legitimate concern about being too dependent on others. But being dependent on trade isn&#8217;t the same as being dependent on charity. You have recourse with trading partners but not with benefactors.</p>
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		<title>By: clintp</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/02/17/self-sufficiency-is-the-road-to-poverty/comment-page-1/#comment-33128</link>
		<dc:creator>clintp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=4567#comment-33128</guid>
		<description>4. Lack of self-sufficiency can lead to complete dependence on others.  An individual sense of helplessness settles in and a degradation of society as a whole when we&#039;ve lost the contribution of those individuals who refuse to participate.  Entitlement and nanny-statism follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4. Lack of self-sufficiency can lead to complete dependence on others.  An individual sense of helplessness settles in and a degradation of society as a whole when we&#8217;ve lost the contribution of those individuals who refuse to participate.  Entitlement and nanny-statism follow.</p>
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