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	<title>Comments on: Cosines and correlation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/</link>
	<description>The blog of John D. Cook</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Handy</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-123976</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Handy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-123976</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always wondered whether there is a connection between the angle between the lines of regression of y on x and x on y and the correlation between x and y. Is it as simple cos(theta)? Certainly if r=0, the angle is 90 and cos(90)=0. Similarly if r=1, theta=0 and cos(0)=1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always wondered whether there is a connection between the angle between the lines of regression of y on x and x on y and the correlation between x and y. Is it as simple cos(theta)? Certainly if r=0, the angle is 90 and cos(90)=0. Similarly if r=1, theta=0 and cos(0)=1.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-115524</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-115524</guid>
		<description>Oops, it looks like the comment engine mistook my angled brackets for HTML; I was trying to re-write the formula under &quot;inner product space&quot; after solving for cos(theta): X · Y / &#124;&#124;X&#124;&#124; &#124;&#124;Y&#124;&#124;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, it looks like the comment engine mistook my angled brackets for HTML; I was trying to re-write the formula under &#8220;inner product space&#8221; after solving for cos(theta): X · Y / ||X|| ||Y||</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-115497</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-115497</guid>
		<description>What is the geometric interpretation of the requirement that X and Y have  zero means? It&#039;s clear that  / &#124;&#124; X &#124;&#124; &#124;&#124; Y &#124;&#124; != ρ if this assumption doesn&#039;t hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the geometric interpretation of the requirement that X and Y have  zero means? It&#8217;s clear that  / || X || || Y || != ρ if this assumption doesn&#8217;t hold.</p>
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		<title>By: Mudasiru Sefiu</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-112131</link>
		<dc:creator>Mudasiru Sefiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-112131</guid>
		<description>Nice write up, more power on your elbow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice write up, more power on your elbow.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy Urban</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-87041</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy Urban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-87041</guid>
		<description>As the rare individual who loves both Geometry AND Statistics, this is one of my favorite relationships I share with my students.  Thanks for the great write up!  

@Rick, thanks for sharing... I will definitely have to read that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the rare individual who loves both Geometry AND Statistics, this is one of my favorite relationships I share with my students.  Thanks for the great write up!  </p>
<p>@Rick, thanks for sharing&#8230; I will definitely have to read that!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Wicklin</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-71969</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Wicklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-71969</guid>
		<description>People who like this connection between statistics and geometry should read 
&lt;em&gt;The Geometry of Multivariate Statistics&lt;/em&gt; by Thomas D. Wickens. It is extremely readable and it shows the connection between statistical concepts and the basic geometry of vector spaces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who like this connection between statistics and geometry should read<br />
<em>The Geometry of Multivariate Statistics</em> by Thomas D. Wickens. It is extremely readable and it shows the connection between statistical concepts and the basic geometry of vector spaces.</p>
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		<title>By: Perpendicular and relatively prime &#8212; The Endeavour</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-52049</link>
		<dc:creator>Perpendicular and relatively prime &#8212; The Endeavour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-52049</guid>
		<description>[...] Also, independent events are analogous to perpendicular lines.  The analogy is made precise in this post where I show the connection between correlation and the law of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Also, independent events are analogous to perpendicular lines.  The analogy is made precise in this post where I show the connection between correlation and the law of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Urbani</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-48413</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Urbani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-48413</guid>
		<description>Hi John -nice post. If you google &quot;four moment risk decomposition&quot; &quot;urbani&quot; you will find a spreadsheet and a presentation illustrating a related problem in risk that you may be interested in or able to help with.

In that method we step backwards through the Cornish Fisher Expansion to the normal distribution to arrive at the vector length or penalty function used Value at Risk calculations but allowing to solve for the higher moments of skewness and kurtosis also. In risk these can be thought of as additional positive or negative risk penalty vectors but ones which interact with each other. The difficulty here is that in the multivariate setting the interaction embeds the weighting as well where we would ideally like a weight independent solution. 

In essence we are treating the skewness as an additional positive or negative vector length and the kurtosis as a change in angle. We cheat by Woking backwards from the univariate solution but have to recalculate the modified correlation matrix each time the weights change which is very computationally expensive. I wonder if you can think of a more elegant global satisfying solution ? 

May not be possible since we are essentially trying to reduce a 4dim problem to a 2dim one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John -nice post. If you google &#8220;four moment risk decomposition&#8221; &#8220;urbani&#8221; you will find a spreadsheet and a presentation illustrating a related problem in risk that you may be interested in or able to help with.</p>
<p>In that method we step backwards through the Cornish Fisher Expansion to the normal distribution to arrive at the vector length or penalty function used Value at Risk calculations but allowing to solve for the higher moments of skewness and kurtosis also. In risk these can be thought of as additional positive or negative risk penalty vectors but ones which interact with each other. The difficulty here is that in the multivariate setting the interaction embeds the weighting as well where we would ideally like a weight independent solution. </p>
<p>In essence we are treating the skewness as an additional positive or negative vector length and the kurtosis as a change in angle. We cheat by Woking backwards from the univariate solution but have to recalculate the modified correlation matrix each time the weights change which is very computationally expensive. I wonder if you can think of a more elegant global satisfying solution ? </p>
<p>May not be possible since we are essentially trying to reduce a 4dim problem to a 2dim one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathematics and Multimedia Blog Carnival #1 &#171; Mathematics and Multimedia</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-41581</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathematics and Multimedia Blog Carnival #1 &#171; Mathematics and Multimedia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-41581</guid>
		<description>[...] D. Cook explains an interesting connection between geometry and probability in his article Cosines and Correlation in his  blog The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] D. Cook explains an interesting connection between geometry and probability in his article Cosines and Correlation in his  blog The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guillermo Bautista</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-41171</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillermo Bautista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 08:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-41171</guid>
		<description>nice article John. We&#039;re looking for more of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice article John. We&#8217;re looking for more of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry  Hendon</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40496</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry  Hendon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 01:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40496</guid>
		<description>Hi John, maybe you can help on a related problem, which I think uses the law of cosines as well (but I lost my derivation):

If you know the two  correlations of one time series with two other predictor time series, what does this tell you about the possible range of correlation between the two predictor time series. That is, given  r(X,Y)=a and r(X,Z)=b, what is the possible range of r(Y,Z)=c in terms of a and b? 

Of course some examples are intuitively trivial (eg, if a=b=1, then c=1, and if a=0 but  b=1 then c=0). But,  consider if  a=b=.7 (which are strong correlations), then  I think the possible range of c is still enormous (0.&lt;c&lt;1. ). In this case, I  reasoned  because X accounts for half the variance of Z and Y accounts for half the variance of Z that X could possibly account for the same half of the variance as Y (ie c=r(X,Y)=1). Or, X could account completely for the other half of the variance that is not accounted for by Y   but together X and Y account for all of the variance of Z  (ie c=r(X,Y)=0). This understanding has, for instance,  implications for (over) interpreting causality based on empirical evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John, maybe you can help on a related problem, which I think uses the law of cosines as well (but I lost my derivation):</p>
<p>If you know the two  correlations of one time series with two other predictor time series, what does this tell you about the possible range of correlation between the two predictor time series. That is, given  r(X,Y)=a and r(X,Z)=b, what is the possible range of r(Y,Z)=c in terms of a and b? </p>
<p>Of course some examples are intuitively trivial (eg, if a=b=1, then c=1, and if a=0 but  b=1 then c=0). But,  consider if  a=b=.7 (which are strong correlations), then  I think the possible range of c is still enormous (0.&lt;c&lt;1. ). In this case, I  reasoned  because X accounts for half the variance of Z and Y accounts for half the variance of Z that X could possibly account for the same half of the variance as Y (ie c=r(X,Y)=1). Or, X could account completely for the other half of the variance that is not accounted for by Y   but together X and Y account for all of the variance of Z  (ie c=r(X,Y)=0). This understanding has, for instance,  implications for (over) interpreting causality based on empirical evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Relación entre la ley de cosenos y correlación de variables &#171; Bitácoras en Estadística</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40392</link>
		<dc:creator>Relación entre la ley de cosenos y correlación de variables &#171; Bitácoras en Estadística</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40392</guid>
		<description>[...] conexiones que se pueden dar entre las Matemáticas y la Estadística. Un de ellas la describe Jhon Cook en su blog, sobre una relación existente entre la probabilidad y la geometría. Más [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] conexiones que se pueden dar entre las Matemáticas y la Estadística. Un de ellas la describe Jhon Cook en su blog, sobre una relación existente entre la probabilidad y la geometría. Más [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Cosines and correlation — The Endeavour -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40199</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Cosines and correlation — The Endeavour -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40199</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John D. Cook and Mathieu, Probability Fact. Probability Fact said: New post: Cosines and correlation http://bit.ly/9sY91B [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John D. Cook and Mathieu, Probability Fact. Probability Fact said: New post: Cosines and correlation <a href="http://bit.ly/9sY91B" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9sY91B</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ger Hobbelt</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40198</link>
		<dc:creator>Ger Hobbelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40198</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this; showing up right when I needed it! Alas, it would have been extra great if my teachers had pointed out this little bit of intel about 25 years ago, while they got me loathing those ever-resurfacing bloody dice even more. Meanwhile, I&#039;ve shown to be dumb enough not to recognize this &#039;correlation&#039; with lovely goniometrics on my own.

Despite all that I&#039;ve found the increasing need for understanding statistics (as you work on/with statistical classifiers and you feel the need to really &#039;get&#039; those s.o.b.s for only then do you have a chance at reasoning why they fail on you the way they do) and your piece just made a bit of my brain drop a quarter -- I&#039;m Dutch; comprehension is so precious around here we are willing to part with a quarter instead of only a penny ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this; showing up right when I needed it! Alas, it would have been extra great if my teachers had pointed out this little bit of intel about 25 years ago, while they got me loathing those ever-resurfacing bloody dice even more. Meanwhile, I&#8217;ve shown to be dumb enough not to recognize this &#8216;correlation&#8217; with lovely goniometrics on my own.</p>
<p>Despite all that I&#8217;ve found the increasing need for understanding statistics (as you work on/with statistical classifiers and you feel the need to really &#8216;get&#8217; those s.o.b.s for only then do you have a chance at reasoning why they fail on you the way they do) and your piece just made a bit of my brain drop a quarter &#8212; I&#8217;m Dutch; comprehension is so precious around here we are willing to part with a quarter instead of only a penny <img src='http://www.johndcook.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Maria Droujkova</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40195</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Droujkova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40195</guid>
		<description>Nice! It would only take a current events example to make a cool enrichment activity. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice! It would only take a current events example to make a cool enrichment activity. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/17/covariance-and-law-of-cosines/comment-page-1/#comment-40194</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johndcook.com/blog/?p=5389#comment-40194</guid>
		<description>Nice write-up.  I sneak this into my lectures occasionally to perk up the math majors, who don&#039;t always notice the many interesting mathematical objects that appear in statistics.  ( The denominator for correlation, sd(X)sd(Y), is the geometric mean of the two variances--what&#039;s THAT all about, guys? )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice write-up.  I sneak this into my lectures occasionally to perk up the math majors, who don&#8217;t always notice the many interesting mathematical objects that appear in statistics.  ( The denominator for correlation, sd(X)sd(Y), is the geometric mean of the two variances&#8211;what&#8217;s THAT all about, guys? )</p>
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